Did the Washington Post miss a bigger story in their transcript?

The Washington Post rushed to publish their scoop about Kevin McCarthy talking about Putin paying Trump.  I admit, it’s a really juicy quote; I’ve already written about it once. This is another example of the really good reporting out of the Washington Post and the New York Times.

But I wonder if the Post missed a bigger point in their rush.  I see more important stuff in their transcript.  As sensational as the “paid by Putin” quote was, the earlier discussion about the Russian interference in Ukraine was critical.  I’ve copied their transcript down below so you can make up your own minds, but let me talk about it first.

The Post story was House majority leader to colleagues in 2016: ‘I think Putin pays’ Trump.  To their credit, they also published the transcript of the conversation.so people could read it and make up their own minds.  It’s not clear how serious McCarthy’s joke really was.

The conversation is from over a year ago — June, 2016 — so start there.   Here’s the context, according to the Post:

Before the conversation, McCarthy and Ryan had emerged from separate talks at the Capitol with Ukrainian Prime Minister Vladi­mir Groysman, who had described a Kremlin tactic of financing populist politicians to undercut Eastern European democratic institutions.

News had just broken the day before in The Washington Post that Russian government hackers had penetrated the computer network of the Democratic National Committee, prompting McCarthy to shift the conversation from Russian meddling in Europe to events closer to home.

The four people were: Rep. Paul Ryan, Speaker of the House; Rep. Kevin McCarthy, House Majority Leader; Rep. Steve Scalise, the majority whip; and Republican Conference Chairman Cathy McMorris Rodgers.

The ‘old’ Ukrainian prime minister they mention was presumably Viktor Yanukovych, a famously corrupt Russian stooge.  (Yanukovych hired Paul Manafort in 2005 as their paid — and famously unregistered — foreign US agent.  Manafort was allegedly still accepting their money until he was uncovered and fired as Trump’s campaign manager.)  Yanukovych embezzled oligarch levels of money before he was forced from power in 2014, fleeing to Moscow.  The ‘new’ Ukrainian Prime Minister is Vladi­mir Groysman, a strong anti-corruption politician who’s working to undo the damage from Yanukovych.

Our GOP guys are spot-on about all of it.  There’s way more there I agree with than disagree.  These guys sound closer to the statesman I long from than the Republicans I’ve come to loathe.  I could work with these guys.  Hell, I’d compromise with them.

I have a little more to say at the end, but first, the transcript.  I know it’s spotty, but bear with it.  The meaning is usually clear enough.

Unidentified Individual: Kevin had the Ukrainian prime minister this morning.

Ryan: Oh, so did I. I just left him in the health care… [unintelligible].

UI: Okay.

Ryan: This guy’s a good guy. 

[Crosstalk]

Ryan: This guy’s a pretty good guy.

Rodgers: Is this the guy who’s been there a while?

Ryan: No, he’s new. He was the speaker of the [unintelligible].

Rodgers: Their other prime minister got kicked out, right?

Ryan: Right. This guy’s like the anti-corruption guy. This guy’s there because he’s the anticorruption guy. He was the speaker…

Rodgers: Okay.

Ryan: And he’s the one who was working on the amendments to the constitution [unintelligible]…independent judiciary. 

Rodgers: Okay.

Ryan: They got that in now…[unintelligible]…and he’s passing…and he’s passing all these anticorruption laws.

Rodgers: How are things going in Ukraine?

Ryan: What’s that?

Rodgers: How are things going in Ukraine?

Ryan: Well, the Russians are bombing them 30-40…um, um…shells a day and the people. Crimea is gone. And, they’re trying to clean up their government to show that they want to be western.  So they’re trying to prove to the western world that they want to be western, or westernizing, so they can get support to get their country back.  They’re [unintelligible]. Everybody talks a good game on what they’re doing, but he’s passed all these anti-corruption laws.  The question is are they, like, executing…[unintelligible]…  I think by the summer they’ll have it all done.

Rodgers: Did he talk about their economy?

Ryan: Yeah, this is about getting actual growth and not graft growth, so…no, it’s not good, but…

Rodgers: I went there a year ago.  It was like wow.  These people are living…they’re on the front lines.  They’re fighting for their freedom…it’s, uh…their independence.

Ryan: He basically….  He has this really interesting riff about… people have said that they have Ukraine fatigue, and it’s really Russian fatigue because what Russia is doing is doing to us, financing our populists, financing people in our governments to undo our governments, you know, messing with our oil and gas energy, all the things Russia does to basically blow up our country, they’re just going to roll right through us and go to the Baltics and everyone else.

Rodgers: Yes!

Ryan: So we should not have Ukraine fatigue, we should have Russian fatigue.

Rodgers: Yes!  The propaganda…my big takeaway from that trip was just how sophisticated the propaganda…

Ryan: It’s very sophisticated.

Rodgers:…coming out of Russia and Putin.

Ryan: Very sophisticated.

[Crosstalk]

Rodgers: Not just in Ukraine. They were once funding the NGOs in Europe. They attacked fracking. 

Ryan: Correct.

Rodgers: Russia TV.  I was not…you know…I hadn’t tuned into Russia TV until that trip.  It’s, it’s frightening.

Ryan: So he’s saying they’re doing this throughout Europe.  So, uh…

[Unintelligible]

Ryan: This is, this isn’t just about Ukraine.

Rodgers: So, yeah, it is a, um…[unintelligible]…a way…it’s really a messaging… you know… they are… it’s a propaganda war.

Ryan: Russia is trying to turn Ukraine against itself.

Rodgers: Yes. And that’s…it’s sophisticated and it’s, uh…

Ryan: Maniacal.

Rodgers: Yes.

Ryan: And guess…guess who’s the only one taking a strong stand up against it?  We are.

Rodgers: We’re not…we’re not…but, we’re not…

McCarthy: [unintelligible]…I’ll GUARANTEE you that’s what it is.

[Unintelligible]

McCarthy: The Russians hacked the DNC and got the opp research that they had on Trump.

McCarthy: laughs 

[Crosstalk]

Ryan: The Russian’s hacked the DNC…

McHenry: …to get oppo…

Ryan: …on Trump and like delivered it to…to who?

[Unintelligible]

McCarthy: There’s…there’s two people, I think, Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump…[laughter]…swear to God.

Ryan: This is an off the record…[laughter]…NO LEAKS…[laughter]…alright?!

[Laughter]

Ryan: This is how we know we’re a real family here. 

Scalise: That’s how you know that we’re tight.

[Laughter]

Ryan: What’s said in the family stays in the family.

Me, again.  So, ignoring the Guido stuff at the end for a second, don’t these guys sound reasonable?  They understand the threat to the Ukraine, and by extension, to us.  They easily acknowledge how that threat extended to the Russian interference in the US election.  They freely talk about how the Russians used their DNC hack.

So what happened to those guys?  I want more from them, not less.  These are serious, believable people.  When were they replaced with ideological pod people?

Last note.  On reflection, I still think McCarthy was mostly joking.  I doubt he meant Trump was literally being paid, but he was acknowledging Trump’s unusual and inexplicable accommodation to anything Putin said or did.  Sure, we all noticed it even back then, but it’s nice to hear them acknowledge the obvious.

I’m not scandalized; I’m oddly hopeful.  If I heard more of that level of common sense, they’d be closer to the change-agents the Trump fanboys really wanted.  Even I might consider voting for them.